Every night, usually between 4 and 7 AM Eastern time, Emipre Avenue’s squirrels go to work calculating dividends and network scores for all EAv accounts. As a part of that process, every user’s share price is tweaked. This causes lots of problems and frustration and should be eliminated.
Example 1
Nearly every one of us at one time or another as woken up to find our share price down 0.5e or more. Sometimes it seems as if there’s no logical explanation for it other than perhaps some of the squirrels were up late doing shots. If that’s not bad enough, market-chasing share holders see your share price is down, are afraid that your share price is going to continue to drop, so they sell their shares, which causes it to drop further, creating a downward spiral. You feel frustrated and helpless.
Example 2
On the other hand, I often see new users whose share price is blown way up because of the share price adjustment. For example, (e)BRANDONRAPER signed up for EAv yesterday. As people invested in him, his share price increased nicely to about 26 on his first day. Then the squirrels went to work. They calcuated his dividned to be 0.22e/share. If they had left his share price alone, his yield would have been 0.22 / 26 = 0.85%. Which now days is a pretty good yield.
However, the squirrels adusted his share price up 7e to 33e. On top of that, lots of market chaser saw that gain and invested, so now his share price is up to 37e and his yield is down to 0.59. That’s not particularly good, which sets him up for a big drop in a day or two.
Both of these frustrating situations would be eliminated if the nightly share price adjustment were eliminated.
Base Shareprices Exclusively on Outstanding Shares
The underlying reason for the nightly adjustment is because share prices are based on 2 things – number of outstanding shares (the number of your shares other people have bought) and social media. See http://empireavenue.com/p/evaluate/empire Your share price changes every time someone buys or sells your shares. But then it also changes (often substancially) when the squirrels recalcuate your social media activity.
I highly recommend EAv change share prices so they are based exclusively on outstanding shares – supply and demand – and completely eliminate the social media component.
If you think about it, social media is already factored into share prices indirectly. People buy and sell your shares based your dividend, which is calculated from your social media activity.
EDIT 7:30 PM EST – One other problem the nightly share price adjustment causes which I forgot to mention initially is that because the vast majority of new users get an increse in share price the first night, theres no risk in buying every new user who signs up. This contributs to the rapid increase in share prices for new users and then subsequent drop when many of them dump those shares (aka “pump and dump.”) eliminating the share price adjustment would also reduce that problem.
What do you think?
- Please vote in the poll below
- Please post a comment and share your thoughts pro or con, and
- Please share the link to this post with others, encouraging them to weigh in on this issue.
Read & vote on all the recommended improvements at 12 Critical Improvements Empire Avenue Should Make
Empire Avenue Tips 
Aug 14, 2012 @ 16:58:51
Paul……..Glad I got to Vote first….!!! I strongly agree with recommendation 100% . Thanks for your analysis…….!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:13:12
Thanks for taking the lead, Jay! Let’s spread the word and get hundreds of EAvers to weigh in on this!
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:29:07
Paul…..I tweeted it out to all EAv’ers on my tweet list….
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:32:10
Also sent it to two EAV group on FB………..
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:44:30
Thanks Jay!
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:13:53
I have been experiencing this for the last few days and sometimes I wonder If am being targeted to get me to think about purchasing eaves to increase my portfolio.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:44:18
Nick, I don’t think you’re being targeted. As mysterious and random as the share price adjustment may seem, I have complete confidence that there’s a logical algorithm calculating the adjustment from social media activity. But why put people through all this angst? It’s completely unnecessary.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:20:08
thanks for the info could never work it out and i also strongly agree ….
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:34:15
I voted that I strongly agree as well.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:44:48
Cool. Thanks!
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:41:10
I too voted in disagreement.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:45:41
In disagreement? How come, Catherine? I’m curious.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 17:48:53
I do not agree.
The share price has to be more than just the number outstanding. Even the real stock market is based on something other than the number of shares outstanding.
I tend to see EA as a proxy for SM activity. If that is what it really is, then ties to SM activity make sense. I do not know enough to say how much SM should influence dividends vs. share price.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 18:26:30
John, thanks for sharing your honest opinion.
You’re right that in the real stock market the share price is not based on the number of outstanding shares. The number of outstanding shares is essentially fixed. So, share price is determined purely by demand – how much someone is willing to pay for a share, right?
When a real company’s revenue goes up or down, it doesn’t automatically cause the share price to go up and down, but it does change demand and so people buy or sell the company which causes the share price to change.
That’s essentially what I’m recommending EAv do. Because dividends are based on social media and people base their buying/selling decisions in part on dividends, share price would still be based largely on social media activity. Does that make sense?
Aug 14, 2012 @ 18:49:59
I agree.
(e)TweetGeistGy & I – (e)BigManWalkin – have supported (e)NickDeninno’s share price (& a few other players) by telling others about his existence & we see that drop in the early am & then we hope people get back to even. I wonder if our activity is only an unintended consequence or if EA expects us to support each other in this way.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 18:52:59
Reblogged this on AOO Authors, Offers & Others.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 19:25:53
Thanks for the reblog, Charles!
Aug 14, 2012 @ 19:20:02
Agreed, but not strongly. Since it’s not a true marketplace, I’m not sure supply and demand will fix the issue because we don’t buy and sell shares to each other. The more I think about it, the more I think prices would become much more volatile because of the relatively thin trading. I suspect having the market set the price would also necessitate making the shares trade more like they do on an exchange, which would be a big change. Would we then need to market and limit orders? I think people like instant execution of buys and sells, and the change you’re proposing could result in languishing orders. I think making the adjustments smaller might be a better approach?
Aug 14, 2012 @ 20:09:07
You’re right, it’s not a true marketplace and changing to market where there are a fixed number of outstanding shares and we have to buy and sell from each other would be a huge change. I’m not suggesting EAv do anything that dramatic. Just put an end to the nightly share price adjustment which creates unnecessary frustration, bewilderment and rushes to buy or sell.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 20:28:56
Hi Paul. I voted “not sure” (instead of “don’t care”). My reason for this is because of the “mystery” of the algorithm. Maybe if EA was more transparent about the algorithm, it may help. Also, I do agree that the nightly readjustment causes angst, so to have something to stop this would be good. This is particularly a problem for new users. What about – considering that we have the 6 day 200 EAv limit – that we make it that if you invest in a newbie, you must hang onto them for the 6 days. This way, people will take their purchases of newbies a bit more seriously, and it gives newbies an opportunity to get stabilised, rather than having one bad day and their price plunging.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 22:17:36
Robert, one of 12 recommendations is actually going to be something like the 6 day hold you suggested. But, that only solves the problem for users in the first week. Starting the day in the negative because of the nightly share price adjustment causes angst for many people who have been on EAv longer than that. So, why not do away with it?
Aug 14, 2012 @ 22:23:17
Paul, good point. If that works then it’s a good thing. Mind you, it’s not the social media interaction that drags down the share price is it? I thought it was supply and demand that is the basic cause of price movements.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 22:43:00
Its not social media interaction that drags down the share price, but variations in social media interaction causes EAv to adust your share price up or down at teh beginning of each day.
Every time someone buys one of your shares, your share price increases a fraction of an eave and every time someone sells a share your share price goes down a fraction of an eave (I forget the exact amount). That is what causes share prices to fluctuate during the day. However, once a day, right at the “rollover,” EAv makes an adjustment to your share price based by plugging your social media activity into a secret formula. So, every day everyone starts the day up or down because of that adjustment. That adjustment often sparks buying and selling frenzies that have negative impacts on users’ experiences.
I explained several negative impacts this has on EAv and have yet to see anyone present a positive impact, so that’s why I strongly recommend getting rid of it.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 23:02:59
Paul,
Ah! Now that I understand this point (this is now very clear), I totally support this initiative. The most important thing is for EA to be a community of people supporting each other and to then use that support to grow a business and personal network. Adjusting scores for social media interaction (SMI) every night therefore does not make sense as: 1) it discourages people; 2) SMI is essential anyway for users because without this, one cannot benefit by growing a network. Ok, great initiative, I now strongly agree with recommendation #1. Thanks for the clarification.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 21:35:26
I tend to agree with your thinking and it’s fine the way it is. It affects everyone the same and not easily manipulated. I have noticed that the adjustment has a cycle of sorts. The time changes and some days your activity is based on more hours and other days fewer. Because they average you over a week it tends to level off but like the weather, forecasting tomorrow is as much art as science. It is really a big deal in the beginning. The general tendency, as long as you participate somewhere consistently, is your price rises. I’d be just as happy if mine were lower and my dividends were higher.
Aug 14, 2012 @ 22:24:11
>>The general tendency, as long as you participate somewhere consistently, is your price rises.
Michael, I think that’s a good point. This is much more of an issue with people whose social media use is inconsistant. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Some people’s jobs and lives are irregular. Some people are offline for several days at a time. They are the ones most impacted by the nightly share price adjustment.
The question is does it benefit EAv if irregular users are frustrated by changes in share price? Or is it in EAvs best interest to modify their processes so they can live their irregular lives and still be happy with EAv?
Aug 14, 2012 @ 23:30:26
Thank’s for the hard work Paul. I voted for not sure, ( I do care, I spend more time on EAv than any one other place.) I Honestly dont pay all that much attention to my share price daily. I notice slight movement, but as long as I keep an upward trend, I’m happy. I do like Dr. Robert Muller suggestion though. I think that might help the wild swing’s new player’s see in there share prices. I accualy do something very much like this myself now. I feel it’s fair to the newbie’s, as holding there shares for a week help’s both support there share’s, and also allow’s them the time to earn eave’s and reciprocate. Thank’s agian Paul, I look forward to your following post’s. G.
EAv Recommendation #1: Eliminate Nightly Share Price Adjustment … « Empire Avenue Rocks!
Aug 15, 2012 @ 00:01:14
Aug 15, 2012 @ 07:48:00
Thanks for the reblog!
Aug 15, 2012 @ 00:12:32
I voted agree, but not strongly — I don’t understand it enough to take a strong stance. (And math is not my strong suit.) Two thoughts after reading posts and comments:
— the main problem seems to be with the adjustment for newbies which drives the sell-offs. If there is some important reason to keep it, maybe it should not kick in until after the first week to give time for newbies to get established.
— I do like the idea of social media activity having an impact on something within Empire Avenue. And, I know there are some people who are not terribly active on EA itself but have good dividends due to their high engagement elsewhere. Again, I don’t understand the math or market well enough to suggest how activity should fit in.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 07:56:12
Lynn, thanks for sharing your perspective. I agree with your underlying premise that social media activity and empire avenue activity should impact share price. As I said in the post, I think if the nightly share price adjustment were eliminated, social media activity would continue to have a huge impact on share price because social media activity determines dividends and dividends play a large role in people’s investment decisions.
That said I also agree with you that it doesn’t make sense for people who are not actively using EAv to do better on EAv than those who aren’t. In other words, EAv should give more weight to EAv activity when calculating dividends. I’ve got a recommendation coming to address that.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 00:53:22
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I am fairly active in Social Media and my score doesn’t stay on a rising course. I think your recommendation would help accounts like mine to get more out of Empire Avenue.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 07:47:40
Cool. Thanks for the feedback!
Aug 15, 2012 @ 00:56:42
Hi Paul, I agree strongly with your suggestion. It’s been a source of frustration to me that there are some EAv participants who have portfolios of 0, yet have really high share prices, due to their activity on other networks. If you’re not on EAv to interact with the other people there, what’s the point?
Also, as someone still rather new to EAv, I find that I spend forever each day trying to invest back in others and grow my portfolio, leaving me barely any time for SM. I know that others recommend Dr Diettrich’s program, but I also know that I’m not the only newbie to find it confusing and who’s asked about a how-to manual. Maybe I’m not asking in the right forums, but I haven’t gotten an answer on that yet. Likewise, I thought that EavNet might be helpful, but haven’t gotten a good time-saving system down with that either.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 07:47:13
Thanks for the comment. Hang on for just a bit because both of those “pain points” are going to be addressed in the coming recommendations.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 02:28:03
Dear Paul,
Thank you so much for your initiative!
I always thought that these daily adjustments reflected your daily activity on other social media networks and was the mirror of your social engagement.
Have a great and happy day!
Best,
Lucas
Aug 15, 2012 @ 04:01:07
i don’t know..the squirrels do add a little drama and excitement.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 07:41:15
I can’t argue with that. 🙂 I think it would be fine if everyone had a positive perspective on it as you do. But it seems to be viewed with frustration by a lot of people.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 07:52:13
I am no exception. I do get frustrated too when it suddenly go down. It is actually a wake up call for neglecting my blog, twitter, Facebook etc. So it is nice to be jolted back into action.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 05:56:11
I disagree with your recommendation, see http://eav.dr-dittrich.de/content/market-maker-madness-share-price-adjustments
Aug 15, 2012 @ 07:38:23
Dennis, thanks for sharing your perspective on the recommendation to eliminate the nightly share price adjustment.
I disagree with your premise that the “good” is the dividend, therefore I also disagree with your conclusion that ideally the yield would be uniform for all stocks. That’s because people have different goals and reasons for using Empire Avenue – some are using it for lead generation, some for branding, some for personal networking, some for fun.
First of all, even if EAv was purely a stock market game and the universally agreed upon goal was to gain the most wealth, the dividend would not be the sole “good” because wealth is gained not only through dividends but also through:
– increases in the share prices of the stocks in ones portfolio
– purchases of shares by other users (investing in a user increases the likelihood they will invest in you)
– missions (sometimes you have to own a certain number of shares of a particular stock to be able to do a mission)
A perfect market would have a universal ROI. Because the simple yield (dividend / share price) does not factor in all these elements, a universal yield would not produce a universal ROI and would therefore be less than ideal. Additionally, because we can’t perfectly predict how any particular stocks share price will change in the future or whether a shareholder will buy back, there’s no way to know for sure what the ROI of a stock will be. So, just as people value stocks differently in a real stock market because their projections of future performance differ, so too will people value EAv stocks differently.
And isn’t it this uncertainty – competing to come up with ways to analyze and trade stocks to get a better ROI than other users – that makes the game aspect of EAv fun?
Secondly, EAv is not a purely a stock market game. Because some people are using EAv for branding, lead generation and personal networking, they will value shares of a stock differently because the person is a more valued contact.
So, can we agree that the primary goal should not be to get all stocks as close to the average yield as possible?
I also want to point out that basing share prices solely on outstanding shares is not my primary goal either. My primary goal is to see EAv genuinely become “social media rocket fuel,” that is to be a tool that helps to improve the effectiveness of people’s use of social media. I don’t believe the nightly share price adjustment directly affects EAvers ability to increase the effectiveness of their social media, but it does frustrate a lot of users and contributes to many people quitting. Having such a small (and shrinking) user base does hinder EAv’s effectiveness.
Therefore, I don’t really care if share prices are based solely on outstanding shares. I just know that basing them in part on social media use and starting people + or – each day hurts users’ experience, contributes to quitting, and is hindering EAvs growth and effectiveness.
So, can you support this recommendation because it would significantly improve the user experience for EAvers and lead to fewer quitting in frustration?
Aug 15, 2012 @ 08:01:08
Strongly agree – EXTERMINATE the squirrels!!!
Even though they are terribly cute!!
Paul, the thing which bugs me the most is definitely swings like you say, because of the avalanche effect – Of sellers shorting the stock with no benefit –
Unlike the real stock market, where you can make mountains of cash, selling down stocks or up stocks
But every day, you get a dividend payment from shareholders via EAV, REGARDLESS of the share price, so it makes ZERO sense to sell your highest activity peeps –
I move that there must be something done about people who have OBVIOUSLY left the game on EAV, because of the massive climbs I have seen for no reason from peeps with zero EAV activity –
And in some cases ZERO on Twitter or FB or YT but still shares rocketing???!!!
Weird
On the other hand, I have a couple of people with SUPER high EAV activity –
There must be automation involved there? One person has an score of 19,000!! Many others have a score of 1,000 to 5,000 –
Now this week, I have an EAV score of 266!!?
AND I have been very busy, buying and selling? What gives there?
Thank you, (e)GN00B
Aug 15, 2012 @ 08:17:17
>>the thing which bugs me the most is definitely swings like you say, because of the avalanche effect – Of sellers shorting the stock with no benefit
I agree. If people actually made rational buying/selling decisions this wouldn’t be a problem, but everyone’s pressed for time so some people see a stock in the red and sell. The nightly share price change is causing irrational, frenzied sell-offs which is bad for the platform.
>>I move that there must be something done about people who have OBVIOUSLY left the game on EAV, because of the massive climbs I have seen for no reason from peeps with zero EAV activity
I agree. One of my coming recommendations addresses that.
>>On the other hand, I have a couple of people with SUPER high EAV activity – There must be automation involved there?
Yes, semi-automation. I use http://dr-dittrich.de/eav/eav.pl to buy small numbers of shares in 300-500 active users each day.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 08:32:40
Great stuff thank you! I have subscribed to this blog too !
Aug 15, 2012 @ 08:56:07
Great! Thanks!
Aug 15, 2012 @ 08:13:31
100% with you all the way.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 08:57:10
Awesome! Thanks.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 08:58:27
Reblogged this on Socialolio and commented:
Paul ~ I agree with the recommendation with a caveat. Force a new share buy holding period for new signups. This will eliminate the pump/dump and give new signups an opportunity to learn EA without the intimidation of buying and selling. The veterans pretty much do this already, buy and hold, so this suggestion is targeting those that game the EA system. Looking forward to #2…
Aug 15, 2012 @ 10:00:08
Unfortunately I don’t think that I know enough about how all of this works. My answer is not that I’m not interested. I just don’t know how to give a meaningful answer.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 11:35:07
No problem, Mark. That in itself is a meaningful answer. 🙂
Aug 15, 2012 @ 10:02:37
RT’d and voted!
Aug 15, 2012 @ 11:35:20
Thanks Les!
Aug 15, 2012 @ 10:06:50
I didn’t know about – Hi
Aug 15, 2012 @ 10:13:09
I agree with the recommendations except one, though it’s not a major disagreement. The social media piece is obviously a big one, since that’s what the game is also supposed to be measuring, but without knowing the metrics for each social media platform I’m not so sure I want that part eliminated just yet.
As I’ve said in the FB group, some people don’t even play EA daily or weekly or even at all, yet their share price goes up because of the social media stuff they’re doing. Not all of us are going to be posting 10 or more videos a day like Chris Pirello, and not all of us are going to post 100 FB articles or images either.
In my opinion there should at least be some sort of balancing ratio between participation on the site and social media. Otherwise, some people will learn how to game the game, if you will, and that makes it useless for everyone.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 11:34:10
Mitch, that’s a great point and one I agree with completely. The top EAvers shouldn’t be social media rock stars who have completely abandoned EAv and they shouldn’t be people who have no social media influence who are just playing EAv as a game. Personally, I think more weight should be given to genuine engagement in EAv and I will be addressing that in a future.
Regarding this recommendation, keep in mind that eliminating the nightly share price adjustment won’t eliminate the impact of social media on share price, because dividends are determine by social media activity and dividends are one of the biggest factors in people’s investment decision. This would just decrease the frustrating volatility we currently see when “the squirrels” decide they’re going to start you up a half eave or more first thing in the morning.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 10:24:21
If this happens, I might re-join EAv.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 15:43:45
I think I disagree, but not strongly. I wonder why the calculation/adjustment has to be done in a batch at the end of the day. I don’t believe that at 6 am EST (or whenever the witching hour happens to be) EAV has some new information that they lacked 25 minutes before. Why not make all the adjustments in real time? That would eliminated the angst and keep the basic premise of the algorithm in tact.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 17:12:35
I’m not sure it could be done continuously because the calculation takes time and processing power, but I suppose they could continuously cycle through all accounts throughout the day resulting in several smaller adjustments rather than one big one.
I just don’t see any positive benefits to keeping the adjustment in any form.
Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:37:42
As someone who dabbles in both real world stock market and social media, I side with EA. It is a mix of engagement, scoring, dividend and…… squirrels. 🙂
Aug 15, 2012 @ 17:13:59
Thanks for your comment, Gene. I’m not sure I follow. What do you see as the positive benefit to making the magical share price adjustment each day?
Aug 17, 2012 @ 18:32:27
My position on it mirrors Ryan Z. To a T!
Aug 16, 2012 @ 09:11:37
I voted “I’m not sure”! 🙂
Aug 16, 2012 @ 10:02:37
Thanks for voting.
Aug 16, 2012 @ 11:57:11
voted strongly agree, but now I’m thinking just agree. I think the most important aspect to rectify is eliminating the sudden stock decreases that new players experience after the first couple days. I personally am not worried by daily fluctuations up or down in my share price
Aug 16, 2012 @ 12:14:52
Thanks Sterling. I have another recommendation coming to address the “pump and dump” of newbies. Stay tuned… 🙂
Aug 16, 2012 @ 13:24:19
ROI in EAv cannot be calculated as the perceived value in maintaining any given social contact cannot be quantified universally as value is measured by the individual consumer.
In English: many of my most valuable stocks (contacts) have relatively low dividends but very high share prices. Why is that? Because they do not post content often (or sometimes at all) but they contribute greatly in the form of comments, likes, RT’s etc. and often spend a great deal of time developing relationships across their networks.
I will max my shares in these people at the drop of a hat and obviously many feel the way that I do because it is reflected in their share price because they add value to MY networks.
To me this is what EAv is all about and it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit when people try to apply nonsensical mathematical formulas to determine the “worth” of a person on EAv.
Go ahead and check out my net worth after only 9 months if you feel I’m somehow doing it wrong.
I voted “strongly disagree” because right now the system favors quality > quantity in that feedback on your content accounts for 70% of the market maker adjustment and after the first year and a half of tweaks I think this has benefited everyone by weeding out many of the other network spammers like Surya Ray who actually had his acct. banned for it.
Aug 16, 2012 @ 13:55:48
Thanks for your comment Ryan. I am surprised to see that you voted “strongly disagree” though. I agree with you that changes to the algorithms that gave increased weight to how your network responds to your content has have had a positive result favoring quality over quantity, but I don’t see what that has to do with the daily share price adjustment.
Since the quality of a person’s social media engagement affects both their dividends and personal connections on EAv, it’s already a huge factor in investment decisions which determine outstanding shares. So, why keep the social media based share price adjustment when it swings so wildly and creates such angst among users?
Aug 16, 2012 @ 21:56:43
If share transactions are the only factor in share prices then people’s share prices will start to actually swing wildly, going up or down a few cents each day is not “swinging wildly”. How motivated do you think a new player will be after their big newbie selloff when they have absolutely zero means of recovering that share price drop on their own? Sure, the market maker is the reason that it shoots up in the first place but without it there would be zero reason to buy newbies in the first place and all new players would fade into virtual obscurity in a matter of hours once their profile rolls off of the front page of the newcomers list.
Aug 16, 2012 @ 22:29:28
>>If share transactions are the only factor in share prices then people’s share prices will start to actually swing wildly
Why? Share transactions are the only thing that causes share prices to change for all but the 1 second each day when EAv makes the nightly share price adjustment to each stock. Removing that would not cause shares to swing more wildly. In fact it’s just the opposite…
>>going up or down a few cents each day is not “swinging wildly”.
I agree, but every day there are at least a handful of stocks that are bumped up or down by more than an eave and many others that are move at least a half an eave. Surely you’ve seen stocks that start the day down an eave and by the end of the day they are down 2 or 3 eaves, right? Wouldn’t you consider that a “wild swing?” And wouldn’t you agree that in a situation like that, it’s the initial drop of an eave which sparks the sell off?
>>Sure, the market maker is the reason that it shoots up in the first place but without it there would be zero reason to buy newbies in the first place and all new players would fade into virtual obscurity in a matter of hours once their profile rolls off of the front page of the newcomers list.
Perhaps that’s true if the new user doesn’t connect any networks or invest. But consider a new user who is active in social media and connects their networks to EAv and as a result produces a dividend of 0.20e/share or more the first day. They would still be well worth the investment even without the share price adjustment, wouldn’t they?
Let’s even consider the possibility that if the share price adjustment was eliminated there would be less first day investing and this hypothetical newbie’s share price was less than 20 on the morning of their second day. There are plenty of people using portfolio management tools that would find that user in their search and invest in a stock with a yield > 1%, right?
Aug 18, 2012 @ 01:48:27
The market-FAKER is so out-of-control that it is the primary reason so many people quit emp ave!!!
The market-FAKER is not why newbies’ shareprice increases. Their price goes up from people jumping on their shares!
The market-FAKER has more effect on members that have been around longer, and the sudden, for NO F-ing reason, drops send you into a downward spiral from people seeing you suddenly in the red and panic-selling!!!
dupped and his Impotent Avenue dev-team refuse to acknowledge the chaos their piece of crap market-FAKER causes members who are working hard to play the game. They choose to cheat the players and reward cheaters!!!
Aug 18, 2012 @ 07:33:01
Thanks Mr. Bill. Now why don’t you tell us how you really feel. 😉
>>The market-FAKER is not why newbies’ shareprice increases. Their price goes up from people jumping on their shares!
Sure, but people jump on their shares because they know the “market maker” is likely to boost their share prices and make them a big profit. I do.
Aug 18, 2012 @ 10:51:23
Further evidence that the “market maker” nightly share price adjustment sucks and needs to be dumped… my share price started down 0.99e this morning. Dispite the fact that the “bank” -> “Last 100 Transactions in past 7 days: Share Transactions” screen shows hundreds of shares purchased this morning, my share price has continued to fall, which means hundreds more shares were sold by people who got scared by the big drop in my share price.
Aug 18, 2012 @ 12:17:41
Strongly agree. One of the thing it causes is frustation, that in the end could make you leave the game.
Aug 18, 2012 @ 14:58:57
I disagree. Shares supply and demand alone will subject to manipulation, and I’ll quit EA at the announcement. Without adjustment, there’s no ‘social’ in EA.
On the other hand, I DO think EA should be more transparent about the nightly adjustment. Or let’s us peek the insight by paying a premium. The adjustment would be a guide to help me to tweak my corresponding social activities.
Aug 18, 2012 @ 17:19:22
Nicolas, social media determines a users dividend. People factor dividends into their decisions to buy and sell shares. Buying and selling shares impacts share price.
Do you factor in a users dividend when deciding whether to invest? If you do, then you are helping social media to impact share prices even without the nightly adjustment. Wouldn’t you agree?
Aug 18, 2012 @ 15:16:06
Thanks Paul. I voted not sure. I play the game for fun and for interesting connections. I don’t chase newbies and only check my losers every two weeks or so. Daily fluctuations and the like I couldn’t care less about. Life is too short. Earlier on in my new EA career, these kinds of things were more important as I had fewer daily Eaves to invest. My gut feeling is that to make it just a pure stock market type game would diminish the experience and discourage deeper personal connections.
Aug 18, 2012 @ 17:22:00
>>My gut feeling is that to make it just a pure stock market type game would diminish the experience and discourage deeper personal connections.
I agree. Eliminating the nightly adjustment would not make EAv a pure stock market game… Social media determines a users dividend, people factor dividends into their decisions to buy and sell shares, and buying and selling shares impacts share price. Therefore social media would still have a large impact on share prices.
Aug 18, 2012 @ 15:46:54
I know that EA is a game, but it’s also a social media tool. I see immediate benefits from using it in my social media tool box. I really try not to think so much about share price, rather I look at that price as an influence score.
I actively purchase eaves to fund my account for missions. I also complete missions as often as possible. Typically, that’s been about 3 times per week. I invest in others, but not as much as I should.
This really isn’t about “buy and sell” to me. I absolutely love creating missions. It’s by far been the most effective means of promoting my social media activities.
I do find several things about this site utterly ridiculous. One is the share prices in general. I see my share price spiraling out of control. I’ve done nothing different since day one, my social networks have increased, I have more followers, and more people sharing my content to wider audiences, my klout score is skyrocketing… yet my EA share price tanked.
Does that make any sense? Absolutely not.
Today, I planned some time for completing missions, only to find that I am now limited to the number of missions I can actually complete in one sitting, before EA will put me on a “cool down” period to “give me time to spend those eaves.”
Essentially, they’re telling me that if I want more eaves, I need to buy more, not complete missions and support the community.
So I wrote EA support – I doubt I’ll hear anything back. I told them that I’m putting them on a cool down period too. I’ve spent well over $1000 in real money, to buy eaves to date. I won’t be spending any more real dollars in EA until they remove the ridiculous limitations they place on users. This site should be intended to measure and supplement your social media performance, not place controls over it.
I’m extremely disappointed in what I’m seeing so far!
Aug 18, 2012 @ 17:41:05
Chris, thanks for your perspective. You touched on one of the biggest challenges with EAv – for some it’s a game for others its a social media tool but can it be both without frustrating one group or the other (or both) in the process?
Aug 19, 2012 @ 18:22:21
I voted ‘agree’. Personally I don’t really care about share price that much, but I have noticed people selling my stock for no apparent reason sometimes. That doesn’t really bother me either to be honest, I mean, it’s *their* loss… they wanted to be silly and sell my stock based on a -0.3 share price difference or whatever. But I can see how that could bother people who actually care about share prices, or who maybe take it personally or something.
And I also totally agree with Christopher Ford about that extremely annoying missions countdown thing. Just because I can have a bunch of tabs open at once and retweet/G+ things quickly doesn’t mean I’m cheating on missions. Some people are just good at multitasking and shouldn’t be penalized for that. I think this countdown thing has actually contributed to people not bothering to do missions for 1000e so much anymore. People just pick out the high paying ones because they know they can’t do all that many before the stupid cooldown kicks in.
Aug 21, 2012 @ 00:30:50
Paul . I think the market maker adjustment is an essential part of the game. You share price is made of two components, the increases you get from selling shares and the increases you get from your social media activity.
You can see them at http://www.empireavenue.com/p/evaluate/empire
In my case my share price of 380 is 79% outstanding shares and 21% social media.
The breakdown is this AFAIKT. I have 954,584 shares outstanding. Each share sold raised my price by .00029 eaves, so starting at 10e that added 277 eaves to make 287e. That works out to about 76% of my total share price of 380e. The extra 3% to get to 79% is I think because newcomers get a larger rise of .00039 per share sold for a while (not sure where the cutoff is). The remaining 21% or 80e of my share price comes from accumulated social media activity adjustments, up and down, but mainly up.
Without the market maker adjustment there’d be no direct reward for SoMe activity (aside from the effect on dividends paid out) and EA would just become a share selling contest.
For that reason I really don’t think it should be changed,
There still is a problem, though, as you point out, since people adversely react to a small share price drop which, as you say, doesn’t mean much but can snowball. I think a lot can be done in the interface to counteract this.
1) remove “sort by gainers and sliders” from portfolio and shareholder views
2) change daily change leaderboard to show percents not absolute eaves
3) show 1-day, 7-day as well as 30-day share price changes on profile to give perspective
4) report changes in percent as well as absolute amounts. One eave out of 400 is nothing
5) don’t color code the up/down change. No more red.
Aug 21, 2012 @ 06:16:00
David, thanks for your comment. I still believe that dividends play a major role in people’s investment decisions, so if EAv were to take out the nightly adjustment and social media component of their share price, share prices would still be largely based on social media activity and we wouldn’t have the nightly adjustment sparking buying and selling frenzies.
Aug 21, 2012 @ 00:43:38
Also I like @nicholas’s suggestion to show more detail about the overnight adjustment. I’d like the see how much each of my 5 top networks contributes to my total daily SoMe activity total every night, and also know the details of the calculation.
The reporting is confusing. For example, last night my activity was 993.97 (when I look at it from another account) but my “activity earnings” in my notifications were just 298.19e or 0.3 eaves per “activity” point.
I’d like to see the breakdown of how much each of my 5 top networks contribute to that 993.97 total, and be able to see the history and trends as well. That would be a big help in seeing where I am putting my emphasis.
Also I think the adjustment includes some averaging factor over a couple of days, so make that clear as well. It can do no harm
Aug 22, 2012 @ 11:11:24
I agree, but in a different way. There shoud be more than just one adjustment, at least 2 a day, because of the time-zones
Kind regards from Germany
Hansjörg
http://www.der-bank-blog.de
Aug 23, 2012 @ 10:18:22
after reading the comments, I’m not sure one way or another… seems to be that the same people/formulas used calculate share prices here are the same ones at klout 🙂
Aug 23, 2012 @ 10:33:08
Do you view that as a good thing or a bad thing?
Aug 23, 2012 @ 11:24:27
well… 2 klout adjustments ago I lost almost 20 points overnight and in this last “adjustment” I gained 16 overnight – go figure.
I like the idea of social media activity being calculated into EA values. But I’m not thrilled with all the missions buying klout endorsements just to jack their Klout scores.
Aug 23, 2012 @ 11:40:28
The same thing happened to my Klout score with the last 2 updates. 😛
>>I like the idea of social media activity being calculated into EA values.
I’ve said this in several places, so forgive me if its a repeat for you, but even if the nightly adjustment were eliminated and share prices were determined directly by # shares outstanding (sold), social media would still have a huge impact on share prices. Think about how people make investment decisions on EAv. Usually people buy based on dividends (calculated solely by social media), buying back their shareholders (an EAv social action), or because they have a connection with the person (also a social engagement factor).
Aug 23, 2012 @ 11:41:07
Oh, and my understanding is that Klout doesn’t factor +Ks into their score.
Aug 23, 2012 @ 23:36:47
I am baffled about what affects my share price; sometimes a day of complete inactivity raises it; other times the same amount of activity (on and off EAv) does not produce equivalent movement in my share price. I have stopped thinking about my share price, I am on Empire Avenue to meet interesting people and view interesting content; if I knew certain actions would have definite effects, that would be even better. Plus my share price is often adjusted 2 or 3 times a day. ‡¡‡ (e)DECIBEL
Aug 24, 2012 @ 06:25:23
Thanks for the comment. FYI, your share price changes throughout the day because it changes every time someone buys or sells share. But then once a day – usually between 5 AM and 7:30 AM ET now – EAv makes an adjustment to your share price by running your social media activity through their magic formula, starting your shares + or – for the day. It’s that adjustment which I believe is harmful and should be eliminated.
Aug 24, 2012 @ 17:24:03
I guess I didn’t really know how this was working in the first place. Stocks are kinda mysterious to me anyway. Good to read some more info on it.
Aug 24, 2012 @ 23:15:39
Aug 25, 2012 @ 06:26:20
Vote and RT’ed to my network.
Aug 28, 2012 @ 15:42:06
Strongly agree. It causes frustation.
Aug 30, 2012 @ 14:21:29
I think I got squirrelled last night 🙂
Hey according to my spell checker squirrelled is actually a word! I was thinking more along the lines of squirrellized…
http://www.empireavenue.com/TECHMAG
It might give some insight into what EA actually does – I think i got busy writing software, which is what I actually do for a living, and perhaps forgot to feed my feeds.
Hey – I voted NOT to touch this – as much as everyone wants things “perfect” I think some grit in the system makes people pay attention and keeps them honest and gives everyone an even(er) playing field.
If my stock drops in price and a bunch of people drop it then the ones that hang on get higher dividends as they are dispersed to fewer people. So it all balanced out. Once I understood that I never worried all that much about just doing buy and hold on most of my portfolio.
Aug 30, 2012 @ 14:31:43
>>If my stock drops in price and a bunch of people drop it then the ones that hang on get higher dividends as they are dispersed to fewer people.
That’s not actually true. Your dividend/share is calculated based on social media engagement on your top 5 networks and does not vary based on outstanding shares.
Aug 30, 2012 @ 20:12:51
I think you make a good point about the double calculation on SM activity.
Aug 30, 2012 @ 20:25:13
Thanks Shane. I appreciate you weighing in.
Sep 03, 2012 @ 01:06:29
I voted “Disagree”. Don’t get me wrong here.. I am too wake up seeing huge decreases in my EA numbers and very often have no clue why it happens. But this recommendation involves a major algorithm change and without knowing all its details it would be silly to think that it would ever happen.
At the same time it would be nice to hear an opinion of EA team on this..
Sep 03, 2012 @ 07:57:12
Alex thanks for sharing your opinion, I’m not sure I follow your reasoning, though. You disagree simply because you don’t think EAv will do it? What about the impact of the nightly share price adjustment? Do you agree that it has a negative impact on the user experience and eliminating it would provide a better user experience?
Sep 04, 2012 @ 08:18:32
Hi Paul, in this case I disagree with you. On one hand the price adjustment falls in the morning in my time zone: maybe EA can simply adjust price adjustment on user time zone.
I disagree on basing Share Price only on oustanding shares: I believe one of most interesting thing in EA is measuring your social activities and can push people to be more active on their social networks, with a benefit for all. It as many drawbacks, I know, for example price falling when your are not active (for example on holydays): in that case I think Vacation Mode should be easier to use and much cheaper.
Thanks for all your work for improving EA user experience!
Sep 04, 2012 @ 08:50:30
Falsomagro, thanks for sharing your opinion. As I mentioned in the post and in response to several similar comments, eliminating the share price adjustment doesn’t eliminate the influence of social media on share price. Share price would be based on shares bought and sold, and people buy and sell shares based on dividends (calculated exclusively from social media engagement), investing in those who invest in them (social engagement on EAv), and personal connections (also social engagement).
Sep 05, 2012 @ 01:05:53
If the avenue is a virtual stock market, then it needs to run the same as the real market.
Sep 05, 2012 @ 01:25:18
So, then you support this recommendation? Because last time I checked real stocks don’t have their prices magically changed each night based on social media activity.
Sep 28, 2012 @ 17:46:50
I agree with the recommendations–all 12! As a newbie, I thought this was to reflect a real stock market in terms of the way it was managed. I agree with all 11-12 recommendations, but could not find where one votes in the poll.
Sep 28, 2012 @ 18:14:25
The poll is embedded in each of the 11 (soon to be 12) posts about each of the recommendations.
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