What do (e)DUPS, (e)TINMILK, (e)RICEAV, (e)BGRIER, (e)MILLER, (e)MIKEM, (e)TOM, (e)MGRILLS, (e)NARSIMHAM, (e)TODDY, (e)NITH, (e)WRITER, and (e)KALLIR have in common?
For one thing, they are a part of the Empire Avenue team. For another, all of their EAv profiles show little or no activity (with the notable exception of Brent Knowles (e)WRITER).
Even the official Empire Avenue account (e)EAV has no activity.
Sadly only Brad Grier and Brent Knowles seem to use social media at all any more.
Two Problems
There are two major problems with the EAv team not using their own site.
- Lack of first-hand experience. Without using the site, how can they know what what works well and what’s frustrating? Which tools are useful and which aren’t? Can you imagine the iPhone team at Apple using some other phone (or none at all) or the Windows team at Microsoft having Macs on their desks?
- Lack of faith. EAv calls itself “social media rocket fuel.” They claim it augments the power of your social media marketing. What does it say when neither the individual team members nor the company itself uses their own site?
If EAV wants to survive, their staff needs to demonstrate they believe in the value of their own site.
What do you think?
- Please vote in the poll below.
- Please post a comment and share your thoughts on this recommendation.
- Please share the link to this post with others, encouraging them to weigh in on this issue.
.
Read & vote on all the recommended improvements at 12 Critical Improvements Empire Avenue Should Make
Empire Avenue Tips 
Sep 14, 2012 @ 13:55:18
Paul – I agree it would be advantageous for the EA Team to use the system so they know what the issues may be. If I put myself in their shoes, I believe it would be difficult for them to play the game and not appear partial to other players. They can’t possibly keep up with 1000’s of players. JMO 🙂
Sep 14, 2012 @ 14:15:28
Thanks Paula. Sure there are risks of seeming partial to some and offending others, but we all face those risks. And which is the bigger risk, the risk of offending some users or risk of appearing not to believe in your own service?
Sep 14, 2012 @ 23:31:38
Paul – I do understand we all face partiality. Someone else mentioned being evangelists, maybe they need some hand chosen evangelists who are keeping them updated while actually playing the game. I believe that’s your intent and hopefully they will listen to the players who actually play!
Sep 14, 2012 @ 13:55:50
talk to dups about this – i did – it is not as clear cut as you might think
Sep 14, 2012 @ 14:11:11
Dups is more than welcome to weigh in right here if he likes. I hope he does.
12 Critical Improvements Empire Avenue Should Make « Empire Avenue Tips
Sep 14, 2012 @ 14:09:19
Sep 14, 2012 @ 15:42:35
During the first year and a half of Empire Avenue’s existence quite a few of the folks mentioned were online actively using Empire Avenue. They have most certainly been quiet as of late.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:06:17
Yep, thanks Omar.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 15:55:59
It would be helpful if they also tried to access the site via mobile. I’m on an iPhone and the site’s functionality is horrible.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:05:40
Good idea, Cindy. In the mean time you might want to check out this 3rd part iPhone app: http://eavmogul.com I haven’t used it myself, so I’m not recommending it, but FYI.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:07:24
eavmogul is very good – though not a big user – since if i am mobile – too busy to be reacting to EA :_)O
Sep 17, 2012 @ 23:00:14
Would recommend EAV Mogul
Sep 14, 2012 @ 15:57:57
It is an interesting problem and a tough balancing act. It seems that they should do some modeling about how they think the site can be best used. On the other hand, I could see some questions of fairness & ethics.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:03:33
I think they should be active to some extent … just for the sake of appearance. Partiality wouldn’t particularly bother me … it doubtless exists in the “stock market world”, just as it certainly does in the “social media world”, one should put on his “big boy britches” and deal with it! It might be nice if they commented here as well! My overall impression is that those in E Ave management are just kind of riding it out … they aren’t proactive about anything! I can’t see how they are making much money on it in the first place, perhaps that’s a big part of the problem!?!?
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:04:28
Thanks Paul, I’d love to see a recap of what if any responses EA has given to all these polls you run. The level of response to what you have so far gathered will go a long way toward informing us. Can you make the response (if any) public?
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:09:34
Craig, EAv hasn’t said much at all. After I wrap up this series, I’ll touch on that.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 18:24:41
I asked the same Question and I eagerly await the responses and reactions.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:17:17
I think the main thing is, if they were actively playing, even if only to buy a few shares of whoever’s on the new arrival list when they happened to logon, and maybe run missions to promote the site, they would have better visibility into some of the issues Paul’s been bringing up, and hopefully feel a greater sense of urgency about addressing them.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:43:10
Their online social media activity should demonstrate market leadership in the area of social media – plain and simple. If they did, a lot more people would know about Empire Avenue and a lot more people would use it properly.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 11:08:12
>> Their online social media activity should demonstrate market leadership in the area of social media – plain and simple
Absolutely!
And I agree that issues of impartiality are pretty trivial compared to the issue of non-activity.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:54:19
Looks like the good folks have lost interest in EA.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 16:56:16
Maybe you’ve touched on it previously and I haven’t seen it, but I think they really need better evangelists and they need to provide better incentive for sharing the site. I suggested to dups in a chat that 2000 eaves rather quickly becomes a poor incentive to keep sharing the site with friends, and he agreed (at the time) but was reluctant to settle on something else. The problem, of course, is that the very people who can do the most good for the site–because they’re already very active in social media–are the ones who are least likely to care about a bonus of 2000 eaves. It’s one thing when 2000 eaves accounts for 10% of your daily earnings or something, but I brought in 280,000 eaves today. What does 2000 mean? It’s chump change, and that’s being generous. I feel like this leads to a long-term problem, because if the most capable people aren’t using the site (as you noted) and if there aren’t enough people talking about it, EmpireAvenue won’t continue to grow and its usefulness will diminish. I would hate for the site to die away because I feel like it has tremendous potential, but someone at EmpireAvenue itself needs to tap into that and take some real steps to bring it back to life.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 17:11:24
Thanks Jason. I agree that 2,000e is not much incentive to refer people, especially to veteran users earning 100 to 1,000 times as much every day from dividends.
However, personally, I think the best incentive EAv could give veteran users would be a better, more effective Empire Avenue. If EAv implemented these recommendations and as a result more new users were sticking with EAv, people were building communities, and missions could be effectively targeted to niches, those folks who are leaders in social media would promote it not for eaves but because it works.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 19:01:27
Sep 14, 2012 @ 19:15:35
Bottom line… they just don’t seem that into it anymore. I wrote to EAV “customer service”, asking them an important quest a while ago and I STILL haven’t heard anything from them. Right about now, my thoughts about that are, sadly “how typical”.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 19:17:38
Thanks for this poll, Paul. It brings to light a few things. First, the ones using EAv are responsible to work within parameters, to form their EAv experience into whatever it is, that they want that experience to be. Thus, if the creators of EAv aren’t using EAv for themselves, it would appear that they don’t want any of the EAv experience for themselves. An owner doesn’t necessarily use each of the products that he sells to others. In many ways, EAv could be considered to be shareware, ie. I paid nothing to start using the program, like Twitter, and Facebook, etc.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 20:29:12
OK, but don’t you think the EAv team would have a better idea of what needs to be improved if they experienced the “pain points” for themselves?
And if they are promoting EAv as “social media rocket fuel” how come they don’t think it’s worth using to power their own social media?
Sep 14, 2012 @ 19:52:05
Commission is a great incentive but how are the new shareholders getting there share of it. Many are still sitting where they started of and buying into other new people. Are there a way to channel them into more info on EA.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 20:05:22
I ‘m surprise to hear that. I would agree that the creator should have some presence. I think they are missing on opportunities to improve the medium.
Sep 14, 2012 @ 21:00:55
Strongly Agree!!
EAv Recommendation #10: Use Your Own Site « Empire Avenue Tips | Empire Avenue Niews | Scoop.it
Sep 14, 2012 @ 23:15:45
EAv Recommendation #10: Use Your Own Site « Empire Avenue Tips | Eav Daily Tips
Sep 14, 2012 @ 23:15:48
Sep 15, 2012 @ 00:41:35
It makes sense to be constantly road testing your product, which begs the question, why aren’t they. Because they are already onto the next thing, or they have found other jobs.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 01:48:34
It just makes total sense that they engage …..would I buy a Volvo from a guy who always drives Saab? They need to KNOW what the gig is. They need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. In a (SoMe) world full of amateurs, I would like to see some professionals too!
Sep 15, 2012 @ 01:57:11
Player/Members should only buy and hold ONE (1) share of any person who works for Impotent Alley! No more than ONE single share! The exception to this rule would be to possibly match any EAv employee who buys back your shares and is actively using connected networks and paying a reasonable daily dividend.
The only reason for buying and holding the one single share is to be able to comment/shout on their profiles! The Impotent Alley HelpDesk is unresponsive and totally useless! You need to be able to directly express your concerns and complaints about the site on CEO (e)Dupped-Us-All and other high ranking emp ave employees.
If you currently hold more than ONE share in any of the EA employees Paul listed at the top of this page – SELL!!! Sell all but the single share RIGHT NOW!!! And leave them a comment/shout that you sold them out because they don’t even believe in their own game enough to actively participate!
Sep 15, 2012 @ 03:27:02
So sad. I remember working for a company who didn’t even use their own product. Once the employees realized it the entire employee base was demoralized. No to imply the same extends to #EAV but the former company CEO confided he was planning to pump and dump like he had his previous company.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 06:24:32
When I was working in software engineering, we called it “eating your own dog food.” I’ve seen this with other businesses, the developers get more interested in the technicals and financials of the biz and loose sight of the actual product.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 11:10:44
Yordie – are you saying that eating your own dog food is good or eating your own dog food is bad?
Sep 15, 2012 @ 12:51:11
Software engineers can have a pretty silly sense of humor, but “Eat your own dog food means” means you better use the product you are dumping on the world. If you are developing an operating system like Windows or an application like Google Chrome, you need to work with that tool while you are developing it. They call it dog food because in the early stages of develoment, software can be very unappetizing (to continue with the metaphor).
Sep 15, 2012 @ 11:18:33
Yeah, in this case, if you look at the bios of the EAv team, it looks like most of them are into gaming and not social media, so perhaps their team lost interest in EAv when they changed it from a social stock market game to social media rocket fuel.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 06:29:45
So the guys behind EA don’t use their own site?
That would explain why it is very user unfriendly and why I hate trying to find my way around it.
Result…I spend far less time on the site than I would if it was easier to use.
That is why I voted that I ‘strongly agree’ with your poll question.
Patrick.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 11:18:55
Yep. Thanks Patrick.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 09:05:17
Social Media!
Does it not say it all? Isn’t it all about connecting with people? Now if someone is going to sit in comforts of their own little world and NOT connect to the rest of the people around, how would one trust their word, their suggestion or their expertise? I would strongly suspect their ability to truly and fully understand social media. Besides simply connecting, posting pictures and sharing laughs, there a lot more that goes on. I am a living example of it. Sitting, rather forced to stay indoors, I still make friends around the world and discuss issues. However none of that ever gets reflected on EAv … I was wondering so far and had given up, as I did give up Klout. However Paul has brought up wonderful analysis and I am surprised and shocked to learn that EAv staffers themselves seldom use their own service. How strange is that.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 11:21:15
I think even Zuck still uses his own site, even though he is a bazillionaire. I hope the EAv team is focused on site improvements, but I would still like to see them around sometimes.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 17:42:12
I agree with you Brock… Zuck is very committed to making his site useful and the only way to do that is to know what the product _actually_ does.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 12:10:26
Paul – I don’t think it’s just an issue with developers/principals of Empire Avenue not using their own site. It’s the same thing with Twitter too (and perhaps other platforms but that’s the one I know best).
I hadn’t even thought about partiality frankly – I believe that to improve the site you need to understand the site from the users’ viewpoints (and it would be no different in any business – why do you think stores use secret shoppers?)
Sep 15, 2012 @ 17:00:59
Janis, I think you’re right. With just a couple of exceptions the EAv staff doesn’t seem to use social media much at all.
Sep 15, 2012 @ 19:23:13
EA’s failure to use their own system not only belies a lack of concern about, and research into it’s own system, it also exhibits a lack of integrity. VERY concerning!
Sep 15, 2012 @ 22:04:55
I chose “not sure”.
I think it would be enough to have at least one or two active players from the team. I would recommend deleting accounts of others. EA is a very time consuming platform. Do we see Zukerberg a lot on FB?
Sep 16, 2012 @ 07:54:25
Actually, I’ve heard Zukerberg does use FB regularly.
EAv Recommendation #10: Use Your Own Site « Empire Avenue Tips « Empire Avenue Rocks!
Sep 15, 2012 @ 22:07:42
Sep 16, 2012 @ 04:17:07
It’s too simple. How does one expect others to take their product seriously in they themselves don’t appear to?
Sep 16, 2012 @ 14:58:18
Bloody obvious really! It’s feeling like EAv is doomed 😦
Sep 17, 2012 @ 09:54:45
Hi Paul!
Thanks for the post as always, and your passion for Empire Avenue. Please understand that every individual on staff uses Empire Avenue differently, some see it as a cool programming project, others evaluate their social networks, others see it as a business. Just like the majority of the people who use The Avenue, we all see it in different lights and we use it in different ways. You could argue the same for Twitter, Facebook or any other social network. Everyone gets something different out of their investment of time.
That being said, every individual is committed to long hours of work to help make all our products as good as they can be. Are we perfect? Far from it and we’ve made our share of mistakes (as well as successes!). This recommendation does remind me that you see value in our usage of Empire Avenue as a team and something that I can bring up internally, but as I note above, everyone uses it just that much differently!
And just to be clear, as much as one voice tells us one recommendation, we actually receive many voices, much of it private and much of it counter to each other. As such, while we may have passionate individuals on any side of a debate, we need to make decisions that are as good for the whole as can be as every decision has a gigantic impact on the product, our team and our resources.
I’ll give you one example: You asked for the removal of User Close where nightly share price changes happen. That particular issue would mean us touching over 60% of our code-base, potentially wreaking havoc in the entire market system and any other issues of even a small mistake in a scheduled automated worker. However, digging deeper into people’s requests, we understand the myriad of issues that lead to asking for such a change and we would rather fix those issues or address them in some way.
Suffice it to say the staff work very hard to make Empire Avenue a better place to be and we do it out of consideration and love for the people who are there. We know that none of you can see the debates internally on different issues, nor can you see the passion on our side. Positive passion from our members makes this an enjoyable product to work on.
Cheers
Dups
Sep 17, 2012 @ 09:59:12
Oh and yes, in the early days, many many passionate people came out against the staff for using the site and showing partiality, so much so that many of us felt (rightly or wrongly) that there was no option but to reduce usage to seem fair to everyone. As a few people note, it can be a fine balance on a product like Empire Avenue where the staff are seen to have powers and insight that others don’t.
I certainly came under fire a number of times privately and very vociferously 🙂
Cheers
Dups
Sep 17, 2012 @ 13:53:30
Hi Dups, I appreciate you responding to this recommendation.
You wrote in your first comment, “we may have passionate individuals on any side of a debate, we need to make decisions that are as good for the whole” but then you seem to contradict yourself in the following comment saying, “many passionate people came out against the staff for using the site and showing partiality, so much so that many of us felt (rightly or wrongly) that there was no option but to reduce usage”
I realize that not everyone on your team is going to use EAv, but don’t you think it’s important that you and those who setting development priorities and designing the user interface use EAv so that you understand first hand what’s frustrating your users regardless of whether users “come out against the staff?”
As you can see from the comments and poll results, far more people are concerned about the EAv team’s lack of engagement on EAv than are concerned about partiality.
Sep 17, 2012 @ 10:15:15
And I will leave one last comment, after reading through all the comments 🙂 In the last four months (with one month where we all took lots of holidays after many years) , we’ve changed the entire back-end infrastructure of the site, moved code and rewritten all sorts of stuff, put into place an ecosystem which allows for future changes with less impact and even had several near annoying crashes due to it, which we’ve fixed in as timely a manner as possible (and even given out an achievement due to a crash)
Lots of these things cannot be seen (such as fixing up lingering bugs in the youtube code over many years, actually fixing bugs down to the core that have existed since time immemorial). We decided that we’d been moving at a lightening fast pace with no thought to actually fixing stuff.
That’s where we are. I think actually taking the time to watch, learn, read, be patient and try to make the right changes is far better than the breakneck pace that we’ve been on. Admittedly it looks very quiet when you start doing that eh? 😀
Cheers
Dups
Sep 17, 2012 @ 14:28:45
Dups, thanks for giving us a little glimpse behind the scenes. I think it looks very quiet when you don’t communicate much. If you genuinely believe that these are the most important things your development team could be working on, then make that case in your blog posts and other communications.
I thought it was good that Niall Brown finally posted an updated to the blog on Sept 5. However, in that post he wrote, “Going forward we are planning a weekly release of bug fixes, tweaks and general updates.” But that was 12 days ago. There was no post about bug fixes, tweaks or general updates last week. It looks like the ball was dropped after just one week.
Sep 18, 2012 @ 03:46:59
I had no idea they even had accounts. That’s a shame. If they aren’t going to test it out. Perhaps they could enlist some of us to help them out in return for some perks or something.
Sep 18, 2012 @ 12:49:29
I agree with the statement that they should be playing. However as a developer for Sitizens I know it’s difficult to develop AND play. Whenever I’m on our site starting to play I’m reminded of all the things we are working on so it’s hard to set aside the time to do it. However thanks to your post we decided as a team that it’s important to take the time out to actually play our own game!
Sep 18, 2012 @ 13:29:02
Hey Tim, glad to hear you’ve decided to “play your own game.” One distinction I want to make though is that EAv is not primarily a game. It’s intended to be a marketing tool. If EAv is an effective marketing tool, wouldn’t EAv want to use it in the marketing of EAv and their team use it for their own personal initiatives?
Sep 18, 2012 @ 15:31:47
Well the way I look at it is their job is to keep EAv effective. So they should have people inside using the site to make sure it all works, but it’s also important that they are bringing more people from outside the network in. In that case utilizing EAv for marketing wouldn’t bring more people into EAv.
And yes, it’s a game but not a game, I’m just in game mode because I look at the gamification they’ve done that makes EAv fun while networking.
Sep 18, 2012 @ 16:20:19
>>utilizing EAv for marketing wouldn’t bring more people into EAv
If it’s done well it would. Missions create an incentive for EAvers to share content with their friends/followers on FB, Twitter, G+. If the EAv team was using their own site for marketing, they would be creating missions that would get other EAv users tweeting, FBing, etc more info about EAv to their friends/followers which would bring more people into EAv.
Sep 18, 2012 @ 13:32:57
Hi Tim… I can’t help asking, were you a developer for Linden Lab (creaters of Second Life)?
Sep 18, 2012 @ 15:33:15
LOL nope, just my last name. I get lots of SEO from people trying to find the Linden Lab Blog though. I’ve actually never played Second Life!
Sep 18, 2012 @ 15:50:46
I’ll bet you’ve had a lot of traffic from Second Life and Linden Lab!
I’ve been “playing” for over five years. One thing about Linden Lab, no one in the leadership seems be engaged in the product at all. This is a real mistake I feel.
Not all software products are easy for developers to become engaged in, but SL is a product that requires an understanding. I believe Paul has made an excellent case for the EAv developers, including product gurus, to be engaged.
Tim Linden Blog » King of Patriots.com, here!
Sep 18, 2012 @ 13:33:58
Sep 19, 2012 @ 00:43:37
I totally agree. How can they expect us to use their site if they are unwilling to use it themselves. I own a few sites, and if I was to leave them for more than a month (like I sometimes do with EAv) they would die. I’m surprised they don’t even use their own site.
Sep 22, 2012 @ 18:49:30
Totally agree 100%! I noticed this fact several months ago and found it disturbing!! Gotta know your product if you want to sell it–Just a fact Jack!
Sep 27, 2012 @ 14:40:13
Agree with you Paul, cos, how you can trust someone who doesn’t use his own product and at the same time talk about it, as a great social media tool. I’m just a pen maker, but, what you will think about my pens, if I don’t use them, and try to sell them to you
Sep 27, 2012 @ 19:01:38
Like others, I’m disappointed and concerned that Eav staff don’t even use their own product. If they did, they’d surely be more proactive about fixing the things that Paul identified as ‘pain points.’
Sep 28, 2012 @ 11:51:10
It should be mandatory for them to use the site, uncovering at first hand the issues that cause frustration, the reasons why users quit and locate the major players who have the highest vested interest in having the platform suceed.
Sep 28, 2012 @ 16:53:53
The EA team should definitely use their own site more than they appear to… and I would imagine they are in less obvious ways. Their public profiles would need to have a fairly middle of the road performance regardless. Do too well, and success may seem out of reach to regular users, or simply biased towards the team.
Sep 28, 2012 @ 17:24:44
Well, considering how little everyone on the EAv team uses social media, I don’t think they need to worry about having too much success on EAv. 😉
Sep 28, 2012 @ 19:24:01
LOL. That’s good. 🙂
Oct 03, 2012 @ 23:39:10
In order to have any success using their own product, they would have to use social media, and that in itself, would help them understand how crucial it is to upgrade and make users aware of what is in store for the future.
Oct 05, 2012 @ 04:41:07
Yep, they just don’t know what is going on. Lack of interest. That’s why EAv. has bugs everywhere, actions don’t work and lay-out isn’t correct as it should be. They should hire a real active player to advise them how to improve EAv. I’m available.
Oct 06, 2012 @ 19:42:45
Disagree, Paul. Don’t get high on your own supply – ‘Tony Montana’